|
|
Post by Eli Brayley on Nov 21, 2008 7:45:48 GMT -7
Please read this. I believe this is a word from the Lord to the Body of Christ which speaks of that most important and greatest of all things.
--------------------
And Above All Things
Reggie Kelly
I especially appreciated your mention of the change of desire from one that is self-occupied to what is represented in Christ's words, "with desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer." This kind of desire is true Christ-likeness, the essence of true community, and the "end of the commandment." Many that boast of community know little to nothing of this. This is the standard of true communion and what it means to discern the body of Christ. Where is this among us? Where this is, there is community, regardless of outward forms. Where this is not, it is only form. This is what conformity to Christ means. Whatever high doctrine of grace, or whatever spiritual discipline or degree of personal sanctification, if anything counts for anything, the proof of its value (so far as personal benefit is concerned) will be shown in whether it has brought us to this kind of love for one another.
It is sobering when we remember that Jesus warned that one of the effects of an abounding iniquity in the last days is the toll that it will take on "the love of many." If God is love, then the want of love is the real index of the want of God. Love, biblically defined, is the final measure of anything that counts forever. It is the 'bond (uniting principle) of perfectness'. Sin hardens, and the evidence of hardness is not measured only by detectable outward transgressions, but a certain kind of 'drift' that shows itself in the want of a warm and tender affection of believers for one another. To be 'in touch' with Christ is to be 'in touch' with His body. Conversely, to be 'out of touch' with the body, is to be 'out of touch' with God. Lest we tend to abstract this point away from ourselves, here are a few passages that show how this 'desire' was present among believers. Notice especially the frequent use of the words 'long after' and 'to see'.
"For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established" (Rom 1:11).
"For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ" (Phil 1:8).
"And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you" (2 Cor 9:14).
"Greatly desiring to see thee, being mindful of thy tears, that I may be filled with joy" (2 Tim 1:4)
"But now when Timotheus came from you unto us, and brought us good tidings of your faith and charity, and that ye have good remembrance of us always, desiring greatly to see us, as we also to see you" (1 Thess 3:6).
"For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick" (Phil 2:26).
You said: "Many don't know what waits those who have endured? — " Yes, brother, many do not, and of those that do, even fewer apprehend or realize the power and glory of such a hope, which says "Little children, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is." That's what we endure for; and that's worth all the patient endurance in the world.
It is the want of this hope that goes before every shipwreck, because, "he that has this hope in him, purifies himself even as He is pure." It is the hope that purifies; so by holding firm the hope to the end, the hope itself will have its purifying work in us. The hope not only motivates us to purify ourselves, it is a purifying power, as when Peter says that our hearts are purified by faith (Acts 15:9). No wonder it is called the 'blessed hope'. We are saved by hope! Not only does it promise a blessed state at the end, but it works a blessed state until the end.
Yours in the fellowship of the hope, Reggie
|
|
|
|
Post by alan4jc on Nov 28, 2008 11:22:48 GMT -7
I was thinking of this waiting for the Hope that is to come and how it is that we all together wait for this same Hope. Therefore how much more enjoyable is the wait when we do it together and in a loving relationship towards one another. Truly seeking to bless one another and lay aside our own desires and fears in order to help along our brethren. Oh may we truly love being with all the Saints eagerly waiting. Come Lord Jesus Come!!
|
|
|
|
Post by rivqah on Nov 30, 2008 9:40:51 GMT -7
I was thinking of this waiting for the Hope that is to come and how it is that we all together wait for this same Hope. Therefore how much more enjoyable is the wait when we do it together and in a loving relationship towards one another. Truly seeking to bless one another and lay aside our own desires and fears in order to help along our brethren. Oh may we truly love being with all the Saints eagerly waiting. Come Lord Jesus Come!! The Lord has been speaking that very same thing to my own heart and showing me how this something that is really lacking in the true church right now. I really believe we need to differentiate between the true and the false church. Anyone who does not love His own brother cannot be the Lords. 1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. I will give you a very good example. There is this woman who is a worship leader in our church. She has a facebook as I do and others in our church. I would say their are about 35 of us so far. She post pictures that are very provocative, halloween pictures, women licking each other on the cheek, ect.. ect.. I could give more detail but I don't think that would be appropriate. Simply put she is a modern day Jezabel. Anyone who is carnal in our church (and there are alot) think she is the greatest including the pastor and his wife. She hangs out with the young people even though she is much older than they are trying to influence them to act as she does. She works in the church and seems to have a big influence on everyone. I really don't know what to make of any of this. I cannot really judge them and say they are not saved but I can say that the bible says those who behave this way are not saved. The reason I bring this up is that she posts most of this stuff because she knows my husband and I do not appreciate it. She also posted a picture of her husband posing with a woman who looks like a prostitute and put a quote under the picture saying "HOLY!" Her husband is a pastor in the church too. They all think it's really funny and are doing all they possibly can to try and discourage us. I don't even pay attention. I put "Less of them" on my facebook so I don't even pay attention anymore, just check up now and then. In a way I think it's good that they are showing their true colors and maybe this is the Lord's way of them putting the noose around their own neck so to speak. Now our church members have to pick a side. The bible says to choose this day who you will serve. For some they have already chosen and hopefully some day soon they will repent before it's too late. I fear for these people. They will have no oil when things get really bad in this world and no way to endure. They can't even resist the world right now. How sad! All they talk about are clothes, shopping, having parties, an other things I can't get into. This is not the true church. How much more should the true church love one another. You are so right that we need each other. Sometimes it's one of the only things the Lord uses to keep me strong and focused on Him. We need to stay connected to people who love the Lord and refrain from professing christians who behave in this manner. Don't ever think you are strong enough to get around folks like this and not in some way be influenced. Why is it that true christians are so petty? That's the question that I am always asking myself. Why is it that we let little things like pride keep us from loving one another. It seems that most in the true christian camp are more interested in playing "King of the Mountain." |
|
|
|
Post by kayaker4theking on Dec 2, 2008 19:17:20 GMT -7
Riv, Could you please elaborate on your last paragraph? I'm not sure what you mean by "true Christians are so petty" and "most in the true christian camp are more interested in playing 'King of the Mountain."
|
|
|
|
Post by rivqah on Dec 3, 2008 1:31:24 GMT -7
Riv, Could you please elaborate on your last paragraph? I'm not sure what you mean by "true Christians are so petty" and "most in the true christian camp are more interested in playing 'King of the Mountain." Pride, debating, not taking the word of God and the times were living in seriously, building little kingdoms, camps and clicks, trying to win the approval of others for gain, not doing what is right for fear of rejection, more worried about the temporal than the eternal. I could go on and on but I have to go to work. I could elaborate more later if you like.  |
|
|
|
Post by rivqah on Dec 3, 2008 7:32:16 GMT -7
It all goes back to using what the Lord has given you and not being a bunch of spoiled brats basically. Here's a good analogy of that. Stop after the first half. Minus the santa ect...I couldn;t help but think about this movie today at work. It stuck with me. Just the first half of it. |
|
|
|
Post by kayaker4theking on Dec 3, 2008 11:59:58 GMT -7
Thanks, I see what you're saying. Is that how you would really describe a true Christian though? There are people who fit that description and claim the title of Christian, but none of those traits describe the fruit of the Spirit. If someone is truly a Christian and not just claiming the title, I would expect to see love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control in their lives. I would say these traits found in Galatians 5:22-23 are more descriptive of genuine Christians than anything else.
|
|
|
|
Post by rivqah on Dec 3, 2008 13:43:13 GMT -7
Thanks, I see what you're saying. Is that how you would really describe a true Christian though? There are people who fit that description and claim the title of Christian, but none of those traits describe the fruit of the Spirit. If someone is truly a Christian and not just claiming the title, I would expect to see love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control in their lives. I would say these traits found in Galatians 5:22-23 are more descriptive of genuine Christians than anything else. Well I guess that video is a bit of an exaggeration in a way. This is the way I see the church in general today in America. Maybe first I should explain the video as I see it. The spoiled child on the bike is the American modern laodecian style church and Shirley Temple would be an on fire for God christian. The doll would be the gospel. Stop the video after the doll. I wish I could just make a cut of that video up to the part with the doll. I don't know why that video struck such a chord with me but it does. |
|
|
|
Post by kayaker4theking on Dec 3, 2008 18:20:46 GMT -7
The video is okay and I see the connection, but those weren't the traits I was talking about. I was talking about when you described true christians with "Pride, debating, not taking the word of God and the times were living in seriously, building little kingdoms, camps and clicks, trying to win the approval of others for gain, not doing what is right for fear of rejection, more worried about the temporal than the eternal." Like I said before, I would not classify someone with these traits as a true christian. I would describe a true believer with the fruit of the Spirit found in Galatians 5:22-23. I know there are people who fit your description who go to church and may call themselves Christians, but I don't believe those traits are true for genuine Christians. America has tons of buildings with people who may call themselves Christians in it, but is that the church?
|
|
|
|
Post by rivqah on Dec 3, 2008 19:05:32 GMT -7
The video is okay and I see the connection, but those weren't the traits I was talking about. I was talking about when you described true christians with "Pride, debating, not taking the word of God and the times were living in seriously, building little kingdoms, camps and clicks, trying to win the approval of others for gain, not doing what is right for fear of rejection, more worried about the temporal than the eternal." Like I said before, I would not classify someone with these traits as a true christian. I would describe a true believer with the fruit of the Spirit found in Galatians 5:22-23. I know there are people who fit your description who go to church and may call themselves Christians, but I don't believe those traits are true for genuine Christians. America has tons of buildings with people who may call themselves Christians in it, but is that the church? I don't know if we can say someone is not a christian but I know we can say the word says that those who behave this way are not christians. I'll just say this, that I had to get off a certain forum with alot of professing christians who were supposedly seeking revival because of these things. There were however and still are some very sincere christians there but they are the minority. |
|
|
|
Post by kayaker4theking on Dec 4, 2008 15:09:07 GMT -7
I know there are some trainwrecked Christians out there, but I also know there are a lot of people who claim the title of Christian when their not. The terms we are somewhat forced to use really shouldn't be, like "sincere Christian" or "on fire for God Christian." These are the norm for Christians. (I could say true christians, but that would be the same problem I mentioned earlier.) I see examples in the Bible of lukewarm Christians and stumbling Christians, but I don't really see super-Christians. Those we would consider "super" or "on fire" or "sincere" or "true" are normal Christians. We tend to put those labels on people because it makes us feel okay with not following God as closely as we should, or as a sense of pride if we are doing "more than so and so." When we shift our focus from what a normal christian actually is, I think we find that we can't really say that we're even living how a normal Christian should or if we are, how great and wonderful it is to live a normal Christian life. I guess this is why it bothered me a little when you said that "true christians are petty." Fake or lukewarm or stumbling Christians can definitely be petty and debating and prideful and all of those things, but normal Christians are defined more by the fruits of the Spirit. I hope that makes some sense. I guess if we don't like the term normal we could just say "Shirley Temple Christians." just kidding.
|
|
|
|
Post by rivqah on Dec 4, 2008 18:14:37 GMT -7
I know there are some trainwrecked Christians out there, but I also know there are a lot of people who claim the title of Christian when their not. The terms we are somewhat forced to use really shouldn't be, like "sincere Christian" or "on fire for God Christian." These are the norm for Christians. (I could say true christians, but that would be the same problem I mentioned earlier.) I see examples in the Bible of lukewarm Christians and stumbling Christians, but I don't really see super-Christians. Those we would consider "super" or "on fire" or "sincere" or "true" are normal Christians. We tend to put those labels on people because it makes us feel okay with not following God as closely as we should, or as a sense of pride if we are doing "more than so and so." When we shift our focus from what a normal christian actually is, I think we find that we can't really say that we're even living how a normal Christian should or if we are, how great and wonderful it is to live a normal Christian life. I guess this is why it bothered me a little when you said that "true christians are petty." Fake or lukewarm or stumbling Christians can definitely be petty and debating and prideful and all of those things, but normal Christians are defined more by the fruits of the Spirit. I hope that makes some sense. I guess if we don't like the term normal we could just say "Shirley Temple Christians." just kidding. I agree. The name christian gets thrown around alot and now we even have catagories. I think it's because some of us really do not want to say he/she is one or he/she is not. There is so much STRANGE FIRE out there. I am really encouraged by Cater Conlon these days. It helps to "mark a perfect man" when you lose your way if you know what I mean. Tie a knot in your rope and hold on so to speak. lol! Carter Conlon, is my knot right now. |
|
|
|
Post by runner4jesus on Dec 5, 2008 10:45:49 GMT -7
Amen, on Carter Conlon. This is a vessel God has raised up for this hour to proclaim truth. We praise God for him and all the good word coming out of Times Square Church.
|
|
