Miles Lewis
New Member
Not some cream puff pie preacher
Posts: 31
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Post by Miles Lewis on Nov 2, 2008 20:32:28 GMT -7
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Miles Lewis
New Member
Not some cream puff pie preacher
Posts: 31
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Post by Miles Lewis on Nov 5, 2008 7:36:14 GMT -7
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Post by rivqah on Nov 5, 2008 13:24:06 GMT -7
This is all new to me Eli, what you are preaching unless I am misunderstanding you which wouldn't be the first time. : ) When you were preaching you mention Cain and Abel, and that Abel did not work but Abel did work. Faith caused him to offer the sheep as a sacrifice. I know you are familiar with this passage of scripture but I will post it anyway of men who believed God and worked the works of righteousness according to the faith that was in them. I'm just trying to understand you here. Maybe you could explain this to me.
Happy Birthday by the way!
Hebrews 11
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
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Post by rivqah on Nov 5, 2008 14:12:54 GMT -7
Eli, you also said the word of God is just to "..shut our mouth.." and basically that's it.
Psalm 119:11 says, Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psalm 119:105 Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Than you said something to the effect of you cannot please God because you have to be perfect in all your ways all the time and there is no middle ground so you just give up on all works basically.
If you read Romans chapter seven the apostle Paul never stopped working the works of righteousness just because he saw that he was a wretched man without Christ but he says in this verse that the righteousness that God WAS working in him made sin all the more exceedingly sinful. He never mentioned giving up on obeying the scriptures.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
"..that sin by the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.."
How can sin get from being sinful to exceedingly sinful? It only comes by faith after hearing the word of God. This is a work and not ours but God working in us. As the scriptures say "we go from glory to glory.."
2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
James 1:23-25
23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
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Miles Lewis
New Member
Not some cream puff pie preacher
Posts: 31
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Post by Miles Lewis on Nov 5, 2008 20:17:24 GMT -7
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Miles Lewis
New Member
Not some cream puff pie preacher
Posts: 31
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Post by Miles Lewis on Nov 7, 2008 7:36:44 GMT -7
All the links I had of me up top were broken and I just fixed them.
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Miles Lewis
New Member
Not some cream puff pie preacher
Posts: 31
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Post by Miles Lewis on Nov 7, 2008 7:53:50 GMT -7
I had accidentally posted the wrong links for a while... NOW they are right.
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Post by rivqah on Nov 7, 2008 13:07:22 GMT -7
I hope he gets back soon. I've been racking my brain with his new theology.
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Post by rivqah on Nov 13, 2008 13:10:58 GMT -7
Hi Eli, can you explain this teaching about "do nothing"? Is that what Bob George teaches and is it the same as what Watchman Nee teaches? I believe we do nothing too but I'm not sure if it's the same do nothing as your do nothing.lol!  My do nothing is like Watchman Nee, teaches that "we no longer live" and to reckon ourselves dead. |
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Post by Eli Brayley on Nov 15, 2008 3:43:30 GMT -7
Hi Rebecca,
Our justification before God has absolutely nothing to do with works. It cannot! We are not able to do any good works until Christ first purifies from our defilement so that we can do good works (see Titus 2:14 and Ephesians 2:8-10). An unsaved man can do nothing for God. He or she can give God nothing. All men are shut up under sin, in unbelief, until God saves them. The cross is where every redemptive dealing with man flows. The cross is the first and last of the Christian experience. A sinful man is first brought to salvation by revelation of Jesus Christ crucified, when a person realizes that he or she is utterly guilty, helpless to remedy the situation. Then the good news is heard that all their sins can be removed by free grace, due to the price Jesus paid on the cross. They believe and are saved. There is no requirement or condition of works. Justification is "to him who worketh not, but believeth on Him who justifies the ungodly" (Romans 4:5).
So we preach to sinners that they are sinners and that judgment is coming. We preach to them that their righteousness is as filthy rags and that they can do nothing to save themselves. We preach to them the free grace of God by Christ's death and plead with them to believe. We never say that they must give God something of themselves for salvation, but that what was required by God has already been given by Christ. All they must do is drink from the wells of salvation by faith and they are saved. That's it! Drink! Eat! Come! Believe! The free offer of salvation does not include giving God anything, but receiving from Him.
However, when we receive salvation from God, we cannot but live unto God. "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (2 Cor. 5:15) This is the fruit of salvation, the effect of receiving the grace of God. Justification is by faith without works, but the inescapable result of the love of grace of God being received is a life full of good works and holiness, proving and showing that the faith of Christ is alive in a person. We know the good tree by it's fruits, but it didn't become a good tree by bearing fruit, but by the grace of God.
Blessings,
-Eli
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Post by rivqah on Nov 15, 2008 6:11:15 GMT -7
Hi Rebecca, Our justification before God has absolutely nothing to do with works. It cannot! We are not able to do any good works until Christ first purifies from our defilement so that we can do good works (see Titus 2:14 and Ephesians 2:8-10). An unsaved man can do nothing for God. He or she can give God nothing. All men are shut up under sin, in unbelief, until God saves them. The cross is where every redemptive dealing with man flows. The cross is the first and last of the Christian experience. A sinful man is first brought to salvation by revelation of Jesus Christ crucified, when a person realizes that he or she is utterly guilty, helpless to remedy the situation. Then the good news is heard that all their sins can be removed by free grace, due to the price Jesus paid on the cross. They believe and are saved. There is no requirement or condition of works. Justification is "to him who worketh not, but believeth on Him who justifies the ungodly" (Romans 4:5). So we preach to sinners that they are sinners and that judgment is coming. We preach to them that their righteousness is as filthy rags and that they can do nothing to save themselves. We preach to them the free grace of God by Christ's death and plead with them to believe. We never say that they must give God something of themselves for salvation, but that what was required by God has already been given by Christ. All they must do is drink from the wells of salvation by faith and they are saved. That's it! Drink! Eat! Come! Believe! The free offer of salvation does not include giving God anything, but receiving from Him. However, when we receive salvation from God, we cannot but live unto God. "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (2 Cor. 5:15) This is the fruit of salvation, the effect of receiving the grace of God. Justification is by faith without works, but the inescapable result of the love of grace of God being received is a life full of good works and holiness, proving and showing that the faith of Christ is alive in a person. We know the good tree by it's fruits, but it didn't become a good tree by bearing fruit, but by the grace of God. Blessings, -Eli Hi Eli, I believe that too. I believe that good works will follow those that believe but it is something that God does and not we ourselves. I was talking to my father in law the other day and we were discussing the one common bond that true christians have and that is that we have a desire to please God. I know that sounds cliche but as you might have read we are seeing alot of carnality in our church and the leadership has NO desire so far to try and make things right or discuss what the bible says about these things. They really have shown that they do not care. If I were to go to you, Miles or Alan you would right away want to go to the word of God and examine your heart, motives or doctrine but that is not the way it is with alot of professing christians. The church is so carnal today alot of them have never met true christians. They have never had anyone challenge them or why they believe what they believe. It's definately not a work. It comes naturally that you would want to please God, just as cats climb trees and dogs dig holes. Were a new creation and we want to please God now not serve ourselves. |
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Post by runner4jesus on Nov 15, 2008 14:45:53 GMT -7
Amen, Eli and Rebecca. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. It is only through God that we can even begin to please him or even serve him. He proves, prunes, prepares and brings us through much before he can even trust us to be used; that way he gets the glory. Because it is not us, but Christ in us the hope of glory.
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Post by kayaker4theking on Nov 23, 2008 14:05:09 GMT -7
Thanks for posting the vids Miles. I heard a pretty funny analogy about not being saved by our works but unto good works. The guy said, "Yeah, if you're a duck you're going to quack, but you don't go around quacking hoping it'll turn you into a duck." I think you nailed it, runner, when you said "that way he gets the glory." It's like when Eli explained the difference between God-centered religion and man-centered religion. If we were able to "be good enough," then we could boast about it and take the glory for ourselves.
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Post by rivqah on Jan 11, 2009 15:23:52 GMT -7
Eli,
I think I understand what you are saying here in these videos. This has really been a great revelation to me. I believe we can try so hard we are no longer relying on grace. This has really helped me alot because I have a tendency to be overly concious of everything little thing I do wrong. I was really burdened in church today. We are facing alot of wickedness from professing believers in a church we are attending. This and many other things going on in my life has really worn me out. Anyway I was in church today and the Lord brought to my remembrance what you said about "stop trying" and I felt a freedom I have never felt before. It reminded me of when I first became a christan and realized that the Lord set me free. While I was sitting in church I just felt a realease and it was like a very heavy weight was taken off my shoulders. I just gave everything to the Lord. I had so much peace after that.
Anyway, I just thought I would share that with you.
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Post by Eli Brayley on Jan 12, 2009 17:13:36 GMT -7
Praise God, Rebecca! That is so wonderful!
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