Post by Eli Brayley on Aug 4, 2008 5:31:23 GMT -7
Andrew Strom unloads both barrels leveled right at the phony 'charis-mania'. Good for him.
----------------
OPEN LETTER to WAGNER, JOYNER...
-by Andrew Strom
I write this as a tongues-speaking, Spirit-filled, prophesying
believer.
Dear Rick Joyner and C. Peter Wagner,
I will do my utmost to avoid disrespect in this letter. But I cannot
avoid the hard questions which must be asked.
I hope my comments here are not construed as "arrogant". This
is certainly not my intent. But I'm sure you have heard the news
by now that the tide has turned in what you call your "Civil War".
I'm sure you have heard that the Lakeland meetings have dwindled,
and the "big tent" has been abandoned in favor of the 700-seat
Ignite church once again. I'm sure you have heard that your man
Todd Bentley's meetings in England have been cancelled, and
that respected leaders even within your own movements have
found vast evidence of falsehoods, fraudulent claims, manipulation
and hype of the most blatant kind. The news of it is worldwide. It
is not just ABC Nightline. It is your own people saying these things.
I'm sure you have heard the news that has even shocked and
saddened me - that the British press is calling Bentley "A US
child sex offender turned church minister who tries to cure cancer
victims by kicking them" - and that 79% of Britons polled want to
keep him out of the country. Where is the glory to Jesus in this?
How could Todd even set foot in England under such a cloud?
Sirs, if this really were a 'Civil War', aren't you living in Gettysburg?
Mr Wagner, I am sure you are aware that because of your open
endorsement of Todd Bentley, numbers of your own ICA 'apostles'
(some very well-known) are already planning an "alternative"
network without all your 'Dominionist' trappings or NAR hierarchies.
Sir, they are leaving. Are you sure you were right to endorse the
Lakeland movement in the very face of your own apostles like that?
Wasn't this one of the most crucial tests of your leadership? Sir,
if your discernment is such that you could get on a stage and
openly endorse one of the most deceptive movements in the history
of the church, then - with all due respect - should you really be
heading up the apostles of the entire Charismatic world? Are you
aware that you have greatly endangered God's precious sheep all
around the globe?
And Mr Joyner, are you conscious of how terribly the Prophetic
movement has deteriorated on your watch, sir? As the most
influential 'father' in that movement, why have you stood by while
the "New Mystics" have taken over - with their gold dust, their
portals, their 'orbs', their drunken jerking, their strange "angel"
encounters and 'visualization' techniques, etc? In fact, why have
you actively encouraged and participated in these very things yourself?
Isn't it true that Bob Jones has been a big mentor for you in these
things, just like he was for Todd Bentley? Wasn't it Bob Jones
who taught you how to "visualize" your way into the 'Third Heaven',
Mr Joyner? Isn't Bob Jones one of the major hidden influences
behind your ministry? Where do you get your visions? How do you
write your books? How can we ever again trust the "angels" that
you see? Sir, what were you thinking - to openly endorse the
"New Mystics" as you did with Todd Bentley? Did you not see
that it could end so badly?
We all know what Bob Jones said when he stood on the stage with
Todd Bentley in front of the whole world:
BOB: "I released my angels to him... this man from Canada asked
for my angels; this Wind of Change is most powerful. Except for
the arch angels, this 'Winds of Change', this is the most powerful
angel..."
BOB TO TODD BENTLEY: "As I watch you, you VIBRATE. You
know there are two portals, clockwise and counter-clockwise.
When you vibrate you close demonic vibration. Counter-clockwise
vibration is demonic. The vibration is healing. Does it seem peculiar?"
[He waves his hands]... "I’m releasing it to you."
A very basic question here: Is there anything even remotely biblical
about any of this?
Mr Joyner, since Bob Jones is your major mentor, and since you
stood on the stage and openly endorsed that whole movement, I
guess we have to assume that this is the kind of "Prophetic" that
you now represent? Isn't that fair to say, sir?
And now I need to ask some questions of my colleagues overseas:
Isn't it true, my friends, that almost every deceptive fad or heresy
of the last 25 years has come out of North America? (ie. The USA
and Canada)? And hasn't it been growing worse and worse?
When I travel to Africa I find deadly "Prosperity" teaching rampant
in the most poverty-stricken of nations. When I travel to Europe
I find them bombarded with flakey 'prophets' from the States.
When I travel to Australia I find them enthralled with 'Mega-church-
Itis' imported from the USA. In every way, North America has
become a source of utter pollution, sickness and compromise -
both in the church and the world. And I believe God wants to put
an end to it.
Personally I love Americans. I lived there for four years, and I have
many dear friends in that part of the world. But I do not believe that
God is going to allow this pollution to spread any longer.
Why do leaders in Australia or Europe think that their movements
must be led by Americans? What nation is most of this pollution
coming from? Why do African leaders allow sick money-grubbing
telecasts from the USA to be beamed to their people via satellite?
Why are any of us allowing any of this garbage? When are we
going to stand up and cry, "ENOUGH"? When are we going to
cut off this pollution - not just for ourselves - but for the sake of
God's precious sheep? Why should we be led by America if they
are leading us into deception?
Should North America even be allowed to lead the worldwide church
any more?
And finally, let me return to Mr Joyner - who once intimated that it
is time to "drive" out those who want to "test the spirits" in the
church. Sir, let me say to you that indeed the time has come to
drive a particular spirit out. It is the spirit of rampant "Charis-mania".
And sir, I have to say with all due respect, that your very own
movement strikes me as the primest of prime places in which to start.
----------------
OPEN LETTER to WAGNER, JOYNER...
-by Andrew Strom
I write this as a tongues-speaking, Spirit-filled, prophesying
believer.
Dear Rick Joyner and C. Peter Wagner,
I will do my utmost to avoid disrespect in this letter. But I cannot
avoid the hard questions which must be asked.
I hope my comments here are not construed as "arrogant". This
is certainly not my intent. But I'm sure you have heard the news
by now that the tide has turned in what you call your "Civil War".
I'm sure you have heard that the Lakeland meetings have dwindled,
and the "big tent" has been abandoned in favor of the 700-seat
Ignite church once again. I'm sure you have heard that your man
Todd Bentley's meetings in England have been cancelled, and
that respected leaders even within your own movements have
found vast evidence of falsehoods, fraudulent claims, manipulation
and hype of the most blatant kind. The news of it is worldwide. It
is not just ABC Nightline. It is your own people saying these things.
I'm sure you have heard the news that has even shocked and
saddened me - that the British press is calling Bentley "A US
child sex offender turned church minister who tries to cure cancer
victims by kicking them" - and that 79% of Britons polled want to
keep him out of the country. Where is the glory to Jesus in this?
How could Todd even set foot in England under such a cloud?
Sirs, if this really were a 'Civil War', aren't you living in Gettysburg?
Mr Wagner, I am sure you are aware that because of your open
endorsement of Todd Bentley, numbers of your own ICA 'apostles'
(some very well-known) are already planning an "alternative"
network without all your 'Dominionist' trappings or NAR hierarchies.
Sir, they are leaving. Are you sure you were right to endorse the
Lakeland movement in the very face of your own apostles like that?
Wasn't this one of the most crucial tests of your leadership? Sir,
if your discernment is such that you could get on a stage and
openly endorse one of the most deceptive movements in the history
of the church, then - with all due respect - should you really be
heading up the apostles of the entire Charismatic world? Are you
aware that you have greatly endangered God's precious sheep all
around the globe?
And Mr Joyner, are you conscious of how terribly the Prophetic
movement has deteriorated on your watch, sir? As the most
influential 'father' in that movement, why have you stood by while
the "New Mystics" have taken over - with their gold dust, their
portals, their 'orbs', their drunken jerking, their strange "angel"
encounters and 'visualization' techniques, etc? In fact, why have
you actively encouraged and participated in these very things yourself?
Isn't it true that Bob Jones has been a big mentor for you in these
things, just like he was for Todd Bentley? Wasn't it Bob Jones
who taught you how to "visualize" your way into the 'Third Heaven',
Mr Joyner? Isn't Bob Jones one of the major hidden influences
behind your ministry? Where do you get your visions? How do you
write your books? How can we ever again trust the "angels" that
you see? Sir, what were you thinking - to openly endorse the
"New Mystics" as you did with Todd Bentley? Did you not see
that it could end so badly?
We all know what Bob Jones said when he stood on the stage with
Todd Bentley in front of the whole world:
BOB: "I released my angels to him... this man from Canada asked
for my angels; this Wind of Change is most powerful. Except for
the arch angels, this 'Winds of Change', this is the most powerful
angel..."
BOB TO TODD BENTLEY: "As I watch you, you VIBRATE. You
know there are two portals, clockwise and counter-clockwise.
When you vibrate you close demonic vibration. Counter-clockwise
vibration is demonic. The vibration is healing. Does it seem peculiar?"
[He waves his hands]... "I’m releasing it to you."
A very basic question here: Is there anything even remotely biblical
about any of this?
Mr Joyner, since Bob Jones is your major mentor, and since you
stood on the stage and openly endorsed that whole movement, I
guess we have to assume that this is the kind of "Prophetic" that
you now represent? Isn't that fair to say, sir?
And now I need to ask some questions of my colleagues overseas:
Isn't it true, my friends, that almost every deceptive fad or heresy
of the last 25 years has come out of North America? (ie. The USA
and Canada)? And hasn't it been growing worse and worse?
When I travel to Africa I find deadly "Prosperity" teaching rampant
in the most poverty-stricken of nations. When I travel to Europe
I find them bombarded with flakey 'prophets' from the States.
When I travel to Australia I find them enthralled with 'Mega-church-
Itis' imported from the USA. In every way, North America has
become a source of utter pollution, sickness and compromise -
both in the church and the world. And I believe God wants to put
an end to it.
Personally I love Americans. I lived there for four years, and I have
many dear friends in that part of the world. But I do not believe that
God is going to allow this pollution to spread any longer.
Why do leaders in Australia or Europe think that their movements
must be led by Americans? What nation is most of this pollution
coming from? Why do African leaders allow sick money-grubbing
telecasts from the USA to be beamed to their people via satellite?
Why are any of us allowing any of this garbage? When are we
going to stand up and cry, "ENOUGH"? When are we going to
cut off this pollution - not just for ourselves - but for the sake of
God's precious sheep? Why should we be led by America if they
are leading us into deception?
Should North America even be allowed to lead the worldwide church
any more?
And finally, let me return to Mr Joyner - who once intimated that it
is time to "drive" out those who want to "test the spirits" in the
church. Sir, let me say to you that indeed the time has come to
drive a particular spirit out. It is the spirit of rampant "Charis-mania".
And sir, I have to say with all due respect, that your very own
movement strikes me as the primest of prime places in which to start.
That is an excellent letter by Andrew Strom to Wagner and Joyner. He covered everything.