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Post by Eli Brayley on Mar 16, 2010 11:27:14 GMT -7
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Post by dannylirette on Mar 18, 2010 6:20:12 GMT -7
Eli, this man injects his own views into Biblical repentance, using verses "here and there" to state that Jesus didn't "really mean" you'd be eternally condemned if you don't repent. This man states that repentance is only required for fellowship with God but not for eternal life. This is utterly false. I was not repentant almost 2 years ago and due to my unrepentant state it was not only my "fellowship" that was cut off, but I knew I had no eternal life due to my deliberate and willful sin. Only in front of Johnathan Steeper, as I confessed and changed my mind about sin, was I forgiven and cleansed. I will never forget that day. I've slipped up and messed up since then (as we all do!) but God has always brought me back to repentance and has progressively sanctified my heart and shown me oftentimes where I've been wrong. Repentance is not only needed for "fellowship with God" as the article you posted states, but is also essential to one's walk with Christ in Salvation. This article promotes lawlessness... it teaches one can live absolutely wickedly and still possess eternal life. |
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Post by Eli Brayley on Mar 18, 2010 9:11:09 GMT -7
Dear Dan, I hope you will take the time to read all the articles. I know for certain brother Wilkin does not promote living in sin. It seems that whenever a person preaches grace through faith this is always the accusation laid against them, but it's an accusation Paul himself was accused of in the 1st century for saying such statements as these: - "A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Rom. 3:28)
- "But to the man that works not, but believed on God who justified the ungodly, his faith is counted unto righteousness." (Rom. 4:5)
- "God imputes righteousness without works." (Rom. 4:6)
- "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes." (Rom. 10:4)
- "If it is by grace, then is it no more of works, otherwise grace is no more grace." (Rom. 11:6)
- "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal. 2:16)
- "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness comes by the law then Christ died for nothing." (Gal. 2:21)
- "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)
- "And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ: the righteousness which is of God by faith." (Phil. 3:9)
- "Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but by His mercy He saved us." (Titus 3:5)
Dan, every religion on this globe has their own moralistic conversion stories. "Such and such a person was living in sin and then joined our religion, cleaned up their life, and now they feel better for it. They have happiness and peace which they never had before when they were living in sin." Christianity is not the only religion that can make this boast. Of course sin is destructive! And when a person turns from sin their life gets better... that's a no brainer. But this is not the message of Christianity. A person may stop a certain big sin and their life and feel a release in their conscience because they are not aware of the true requirement of God's law and their utter sinfulness before a holy God. God's word states that "there is none righteous, no not one." That means even the most clean person in the eyes of the world is filthy rags before God. You can confess your sins and stop them as well and you are still unrighteous and unacceptable to God, and will be rejected. We simply do not see God's law and what it requires. What the law requires Jesus delivered. Jesus was what the law requires, so unless you are like Jesus you are falling short of the glory of God. The righteousness of God is the only righteousness that is accepted, and therefore it must come to us by grace through faith, for not one person is righteous before God by their own deeds, no matter how deep they claim their "repentance" to be. You said, Dan, what is that suppose to mean? Really, can a person live a little bit wickedly or is heaven only barred for those who live absolutely wickedly? "Saving faith is giving up every other confidence and placing one's confidence solely in Jesus Christ." - Lewis S. Chafer What a wonderful quote. Christianity is about giving up all confidence and hope in what one can do and putting all confidence in hope in what Christ has done for them at the cross. That's what repentance and faith is all about. You see, these so-called Christian preachers say we must "believe and repent", as if faith were first, and if you truly believe you will stop your sins. The Bible says "repent and believe", teaching us that repentance comes first and leads us to faith. We repent, or change our minds about the entire situation, and we give up confidence in ourselves and place all confidence in Christ. That is repenting and believing. It is not believing and repenting. Dan, you confessed your sin and stopped it, and I am glad that you did. But if you are trusting in that as if that is the reason you obtained peace with God then I most strongly say to you that that is no hope at all and you are resting your eternal hope upon a false confidence. Unless we are clear on the gospel and with Paul can say that our salvation is not based upon any work that we do but solely upon the work that Christ did on the cross, then we are not Christians. I am not saying that is your case, but am just asking where your confidence is. You cannot trust in both Christ and yourself. Finish reading all the articles. I pray that you'll realize that what has been commonly proclaimed as Biblical repentance is really just a traditional interpretation of men, and is not the true Biblical repentance of God. "Not of works, lest any man should boast." -Eli |
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Post by dannylirette on Mar 18, 2010 21:03:17 GMT -7
A short reply as I continue to read the remainder of the articles...
As per my own turning from sin, I have to say that it wasn't "me" who turned, but God who turned me.
I had absolutely nothing to do with it except to change my mind, admit that my sins were wicked and needed to be removed.
However, I couldn't remove them and certain have no power in myself to even stop sinning.
I affirm that the Grace of God has given me power to overcome sin and that there is nothing at all within me that can overcome sin.
That said, do I believe that my repentance secured my Salvation?
Absolutely not.
I believe that my Salvation has secured my repentance.
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Post by 4him on Mar 19, 2010 15:25:17 GMT -7
Hi Eli and Dan,
I wonder if it would be fair to say that Dan's repentance was similar to the type of repentance Paul was speaking of when he dealt with the man in 2 Corinthians, who had committed sins and then was restored to fellowship. In this instance, Paul deemed the attitude the man had towards his sin, as being an important part of his restoration.
"For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea what indignation, yea, what revenge ! In all these things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter." 2 Corinthians 7:11
I would see this godly sorrow as 'an evidence' of the work of God in a Christian's heart. It is not the only evidence, but I think it is like what John the Baptist was referring to when he said, "Bring forth fruits worthy of repentance." I'd see this godly sorrow as one of the fruits of having been regenerated, just as the 'Beattitudes' would be descriptors of those who have been born from above.
Relating this more specifically to the present discussion, we shouldn't put our confidence in our 'feeling sorry' as the basis for our having been regenerated, however if we can sin without being convicted, this might be grounds for questioning whether we 'have the Spirit', as the Holy Spirit is faithful in bringing a believer to an awareness of his or her sins.
In Jesus,
John
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Post by Eli Brayley on Mar 20, 2010 17:56:19 GMT -7
Well said, John.
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Post by dannylirette on Mar 20, 2010 20:18:55 GMT -7
Yes, John; this is well said.
Eli, I am not done going through the articles, but will be finished in no time at all.
I thought of you when I read this statement as I believe you enjoy A.W Pink.
"Any preacher who rejects God's law, who denies repentance to be a condition of salvation, who assures the giddy and godless that they are loved by God, who declares that saving faith is nothing more than an act of the will which every person has the power to perform is a false prophet and should be shunned as a deadly plague" A.W. Pink
You said: "You see, these so-called Christian preachers say we must "believe and repent", as if faith were first, and if you truly believe you will stop your sins. The Bible says "repent and believe", teaching us that repentance comes first and leads us to faith. We repent, or change our minds about the entire situation, and we give up confidence in ourselves and place all confidence in Christ. That is repenting and believing. It is not believing and repenting."
That is exactly what I believe... well said!
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Post by Eli Brayley on Mar 23, 2010 10:09:12 GMT -7
I actually removed the last article from the list after realizing that Wilkin changed his position on repentance after his dissertation! Frankly, that amazes me.
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