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Post by Eli Brayley on Jun 22, 2009 11:58:34 GMT -7
Dear saints,
A young man just came into the bookstore who is struggling at the end of himself on all levels: physically and spiritually - Jordan is trying to come off Methadone addiction and is incredibly weak and doesn't think he can make it. He is also from an LDS background and is struggling with which truth to believe, but God allowed me to speak to him the wonderful word of life and he was greatly affected. He is going home to pray. Please lift up Jordon before God, that God would save him forcibly out from the power of darkness, that the Holy Spirit would fill Jordan with revelation and clarity of mind, and would miraculously set him free from his addiction. He is in a place of blessed weakness where God is strong. Please pray for Jordan!
Yours,
-Eli
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Post by 4him on Jul 11, 2009 13:52:42 GMT -7
Hi Eli,
Sure, I'll pray for Jordan that God will set him free !
I also had a chance to speak to an LDS man a week ago, while we've been on our trip. We journeyed east across the northern U.S. states and are now in Kitchener Ontario, where my family lives. While in Saskatchewan, we were approached by a man who introduced himself as a missionary and endeavoured to share the LDS version of the gospel with us. He was typically polite, and I was surprised at how much he was willing to concede that some of the points that were made during the conversation were cause for reflection. I don't know if this may be part of the overall approach that has been drilled into LDS 'missionaries'. But hopefully it represented a genuine reappraisal of his Mormon beliefs. I showed him from his own 'bible' from the book of Revelations that Jesus was God in the flesh. Even in their version of this book, there's a place where it talks about the 'First and the last who died and rose again' (which refers to Christ) and a place where it talks about the 'Alpha and Omega' which is a term for God. Then in another passage it refers to 'First and Last, Alpha and Omega', which shows that Christ was God come down in human flesh. I also asked this young man why it was that Mormons seemed to talk much about tangential issues while the Christians we encounter in the New Testament spoke of 'Christ and him crucified'. He told me that what Christians were missing was 'The Holy Ghost'. After our conversation, I thought of pointing out to him that since the scriptures say that the Holy Spirit's job is to testify of Christ and not of himself, then a mark of those who are truly filled with the Holy Spirit is that they too will be enamoured with the person and work of Christ.
Another thing that came as a surprise to me during our conversation, was that this man believed that one could know (and not just hope) that they had eternal life. I had somehow thought that Mormons did not believe this, however I think that sometimes I get the beliefs of Mormons confused with the beliefs of J.W.s. They do seem to hold to the 'sealing of the Spirit' as bonafide Christians do. Eli , is this the 'burning in the bosom' which Mormons often refer to, or is that something else ?
Overall, I felt like God had been able to use this occassion to plant seeds of truth in this young man's heart ( I should have taken the time to ask for his name). I wish I had spoken to him more about the topic of sin and his need for Christ's healing balm for his fallen condition, although there was some mention made along these lines.
Just wanted to share about this man,as Eli's post made me think of him. I'll continue to pray for these 2 young men. Could you please join me in this ?
In Jesus,
John
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Post by Eli Brayley on Jul 13, 2009 13:42:25 GMT -7
John, thanks for sharing your encounter. Sounded like it went pretty well!
When it comes to talking with Christians (true born-again Christians), Mormons are trained to be on guard and they have certain tricks up their sleeves to try and fool us into thinking they are Christians too. The LDS Church gets most of their converts from the Roman Catholic Church (ie. South and Central America) or other "Christian" churches that are spiritually dead. It's nearly impossible for them to convert an atheist, but they find those people who have a general belief system in the Bible and yet have no true knowledge of Jesus Christ and salvation. "Born-again Christians", as they call them, are the most dangerous for Mormons because they generally DO know their Bible and understand what salvation is all about. LDS leaders encourage their people to not get into discussion with B.A. Christians, and they liken us to Goliath-like mockers who taunt the people of God to get into fights. Of course, the real underlying demonic reason is is that they do not want their people to be exposed to the truth.
Missionaries, who come into contact with Christians regularly, are taught to end all conversation if it gets out of their control, or off the prescribed rails. They are trained to agree with almost everything you say, so that you scratch your head and think they must be orthodox. This is partly because we both use the same terminology but use different definitions, so you have to ask them what they specifically mean, but it is also because the LDS Church claims to hold all the truth that Christians hold, only more. So they can comfortably agree as they reckon they already have what we have. They see us as lacking truth.
I thought that was interesting how the missionary told you that Christians lacked the Holy Spirit. I think what he meant was that Christians do not believe that the Spirit can speak to us today, ie. personal revelation. Of course, this is one of many misunderstandings Mormons have toward Christians. They see us as holding only to a "dead book", the Bible, and that we have no personal communication with God. Mormons boast that they can "feel" the Spirit ("the burning in the bosom"). However, ultimately in Mormonism this destroys all authority and they do not even uphold the Scriptures as their final word, but it all comes down to their feelings. I can't tell you how many Mormons I have talked to in which the written Scripture holds no water for them if they do not like how it feels. Probe down to the bottom, and you find that the only thing they go by is their subjective intuition, which we all know from experience that that is far from trustworthy. The Bible tells us that the heart of man is deceitful above all else. There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death.
That being said, there is a surface respect for the Scriptures so the best thing you can do is to show them their sin and need of salvation by grace through faith. Show them that truth never changes regardless of how they feel, and that they can trust the Word of God. Help them to see that they fall short of their own standards because of their own willful sinfulness. Tell them of the great love of God for sinners, in that He died for us to justify us freely.
Keep praying for them, because only God can remove the obvious scales. Thank you so much for your prayers for Jordan too. I haven't seen him since, though I heard he is still attempting to get off the drugs and be reconciled to his wife.
Many blessings, dear brother!
Yours,
-Eli
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Post by 4him on Jul 22, 2009 11:52:43 GMT -7
Dear brother,
Thank you for your prayers and for sharing your insights into how to share the gospel with Mormons. I trust things are going well as you continue to do this in Utah ! I hope that everyone else on this board is also having a wonderful and blessed summer. It's been a cooler one, where I've been staying. Tonight, we're going to rent the film 'Facing the Giants' and will watch it with my parents, as they haven't seen it yet. I also really enjoyed 'Fireproof', which was produced by the same film company last year. I believe that God has His blessing on these films and has definitely used them to minister to people.
God's rich blessings :-)
In Christ's love,
John
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