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Post by Eli Brayley on Mar 8, 2007 9:44:32 GMT -7
Here's the question: Did Adam and Eve know it was wrong to disobey God and eat from the forbidden tree?
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Post by Eli Brayley on Mar 9, 2007 15:00:09 GMT -7
You might be thinking this is a strange question, as I did as well... but recently I was in a conversation where this question came up. I contend that Adam and and Eve did indeed know it was wrong to eat from the tree, simply on the ground that God told them not to do so. I will elaborate a little later.
The alternative is that because they had not eaten from the tree yet, they had NO knowledge of good and evil and so they didn't even know disobedience was wrong until after they sinned. This doesn't really convince me.
I'll leave it there for now. I would like to hear some other thoughts on this, though. Thanks everybody.
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justin
New Member
Hebrews 12:2
Posts: 18
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Post by justin on Mar 9, 2007 15:08:35 GMT -7
Even if they supposedly had no knowledge of disobedience at that point, since God told them not to do it, they did know that it was wrong to eat from the tree.
I don't think that they knew what they were doing would lead to bringing sin into the world, but I woould argue that they did know that it was wrong to disobey God.
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Post by runner4jesus on Jul 11, 2007 22:26:57 GMT -7
Jesus walked with Adam in the garden because he brought the animals to Adam to see what he would name them. And in Genesis 3:8 says And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: And Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. They must have known his voice already and knew they had sinned. God didn't just ask Adam not to eat the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:16 says God commanded the man not to eat of this tree. Eve must have known how serious this was because she told the serpent they weren't suppose to eat or touch this tree in the midst of the garden.
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Post by Eli Brayley on Jul 12, 2007 12:21:31 GMT -7
That's what I tend to think, but I was talking with a friend about it and he would say that if this is true then Adam and Eve knew good and evil before eating from the tree. I'm still thinking about this. Perhaps eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil stole their innocency? "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked..." A little child knows right from wrong when the parents tell them "no" but they do it anyway... but at the same time they are innocent of the serious nature of good and evil and even their own nakedness, kids don't experience the shame of it until later in life. Perhaps Adam and Eve in their adulthood still maintained this innocency until they ate from the tree?
Then again, I could be totally wrong and it really means they had no idea of any sort of right and wrong at all, even in breaking the commandment of God.
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Post by alan4jc on Jul 12, 2007 12:26:05 GMT -7
Maybe the knowledge is more of an intimate relationship type knowledge.
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Post by alan4jc on Jul 12, 2007 13:09:42 GMT -7
Strong's Number: 03045 Browse Lexicon Original Word Word Origin [dy a primitive root Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Yada` TWOT - 848 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech yaw-dah' Verb Definition to know (Qal) to know 1a to know, learn to know 1a to perceive 1a to perceive and see, find out and discern 1a to discriminate, distinguish 1a to know by experience 1a to recognise, admit, acknowledge, confess 1a to consider to know, be acquainted with to know (a person carnally) to know how, be skilful in to have knowledge, be wise (Niphal) to be made known, be or become known, be revealed to make oneself known to be perceived to be instructed (Piel) to cause to know (Poal) to cause to know (Pual) to be known known, one known, acquaintance (participle) (Hiphil) to make known, declare (Hophal) to be made known (Hithpael) to make oneself known, reveal oneself
to know by experience is what I had in mind when I said an intimate relationship.
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Post by runner4jesus on Jul 12, 2007 18:27:34 GMT -7
???They were told the consequences of disobeying the Lord and they still did it. They did have an innocence before, but that does not negate the fact they chose to disobey. Then they made excuses. God provided for them, but he had to keep his word.
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Post by alan4jc on Jul 13, 2007 12:12:42 GMT -7
I don't know if my answer made much sense What I was trying to say is that Adam and Eve knew only to obey God. They knew both obedience and disobedience once they disobeyed. So they went from belief, to experiencial understanding of the consequenses of the disobedience. Does that make any sense?
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Post by runner4jesus on Jul 13, 2007 18:30:05 GMT -7
Understand what your saying Alan. Adam & Even didn't have a full understanding until they experienced it. Somehow free will that was given to them came into play, gave them the ability to choose to obey or disobey. But I think your right because disobedience never happened to them before, they didn't comprehend the serious consequences that would take place. Even tho they knew exactly what the Lord had told them not to do and what would happen if they did. Hope this helps.
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Post by evanandliz on Aug 2, 2007 19:52:39 GMT -7
I think I am the "friend" ;D
It is true that Adam and Eve knew that God commanded them to not eat of the tree - but the question does not lie in that realm of knowledge of the command, but rather in the knowledge of whether or not they knew it was evil to disobey the command.
When you receive something for the very first time, this necessitates the consideration that you never had the thing you obtained before you actually obtained it. When God saved me, I received something I had never had before, salvation. Did I have this before I received it? Certainly not, or I could not have received it when I did.
The same is true of the knowledge of good and evil. they had no knowledge, therefore we can adequately see then why they were so easily duped by the serpent in the garden, without so much as a second guess or question whether or not to eat of the tree. If they knew it was evil, why then did they not even so much as question the serpent concerning the matter?
They knew God commanded, but they did not know the evil that lies with disobedience.
One word of caution, beware of formulating a doctrine based on a post fall understanding of man and morality, when considering the state of man's consciousness, or perception of God and morality before the fall.
Just a thought.
Evan
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Post by runner4jesus on Aug 3, 2007 10:21:55 GMT -7
This might shed some light on the matter. 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. Notice, Eve was beguiled; deceived, cheated, deluded, tricked. Adam was not mentioned in the beguiling aspect. God is a just God and if he didn't think their disobedience was that serious he wouldn't have been so severe in judging their sin. They may not have comprehended the full scope of their disobedience, but they chose to disobey. Before the fall God had fellowship with Adam & Eve. Look at Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. They must have known his voice to be afraid after they disobeyed. They apparently experienced the presence of the Lord too! Hope this helps some?
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Post by Eli Brayley on Aug 3, 2007 16:30:42 GMT -7
Interesting thought, Margie.
If we believe that part of being made in the image of God is the inherit character (ethic) of God, whereby we govern ourselves appropriately, then Adam and Eve must of had this intuition in them before the fall. Otherwise, it was actually the fall which made them free-moral beings, and it was the fall that birthed the character of God within them. That would then imply that the fall wrought a good thing in man. Sorry if this is a bit confusing, but I hope you can follow what I mean.
Of course, I don't believe this is the case. Adam and Eve were indeed made in the image of God, having right standing with Him and well as the ability to govern amongst them selves righteously, yet they did not know sin, nor the knowledge of evil, nor the true nature of 'good', for 'good' to them was as normal as air to us, and sin to them was as foreign as a non-entity.
Just a thought. Could be wrong!
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Post by runner4jesus on Aug 4, 2007 17:46:34 GMT -7
Adam & Eve must have had more going for them and knew what was right & wrong. They were told what the consequences would be if they disobeyed. It was a severe punishment by God for choosing not to do his will. God wouldn't send them out so abruptly if he considered what they did out of ignorance. They were blaming the devil and each other for their disobedience, but God held them accountable. In his mercy God clothed them and instituted the first animal sacrifice, but he held them responsible for their sin. God must have instructed them quite fully, and must have had more understanding of the consequences. God didn't excuse them and we can't either, because people today have laxness in God's absolutes and take sin lightly. This exposition of what I believe to be true is not meant to be argumentative in any sense, just trying to explain. Please forgive me if it comes across that way.
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Post by Eli Brayley on Aug 5, 2007 10:10:07 GMT -7
Don't worry, no one is arguing! I actually was agreeing with you!
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